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NYYlifetimefan |
CC to start season and home opener |
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I don't give a rat's ass about the season opener but in my very humble opinion the home opener in the new stadium belongs to AP, assuming he is fit.
That is the story. These Yankees have no appreciation for history and tradition. It truly is business for them. That's all I have to say. Other than, what
in the hell is this team thinking really? URGH!
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CalifYanksFan |
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Jeff, I understand your frustration, but it has nothing to do with the Yankees doing business. It has to do with the rotation and how it's set up. CC is
the No. 1 starter and he's pitching the season opener. It just so happens that 5 days later it's his turn again and it falls on the home opener. Andy
is the No. 4 guy behind CC, AJ, and Wang. Speaking of tradition the honor of pitching the home opener usually goes to the guy designated as the Ace or No. 1 of
your staff. That happens to be CC. Sorry, buddy!
Russ
califyanksfan "I think the good Lord is a Yankee." - Mariano Rivera |
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NYYlifetimefan |
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But, Russ, this ain't no run of the mill home opener. Exceptions can and should be made for the sake of history and the like. I just have to disagree.
Rotation, roshmation. It's not like our season depends on keeping the rotation in perfect harmony with some spirit or the like. So, I maintain my position.
AP should start. And, if not him, then Wang. But AP is my first call.
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CalifYanksFan |
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I disagree Jeff. You're not just affecting AP and CC, you're affecting everyone else in the rotation. They throw between starts with bullpen sessions,
workout regimen, the whole nine yards. It's not like waving a wand. He's scheduled to pitch on the 9th and the 14th. How is AP supposed to pitch on the
16th? You can't screw up two weeks of pitching schedule for sentimentality. The Yankees paid a lot of money for Sabathia and they want to showcase him for
the fans in the new digs. I honestly think more people would want to see their new $160M ace than AP. What do others think? Good topic.
Russ
califyanksfan "I think the good Lord is a Yankee." - Mariano Rivera |
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NYYlifetimefan |
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So, if someone comes down with an injury or two come down with injuries is the whole season shot b/c the sacred rotation has been disrupted? Sort of like a
breach in the force field? Of course not. Especially this early in the season. Come on folks, join in--don't let Russ and me have all the fun.
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Nome II |
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I'm with Jeff. Andy for the home opener. I feel most Yankee fans (not the corporate exec types) want Andy to pitch the first game at YS. The Yanks
first regular season is 4/6 against Baltimore. CC will pitch that one. If you pitch Wang in the second game, AJ the 3rd and Joba the 4th you have AP for the
5th. Then AP would be right in line for the YS opener. Not a bad setup. As the season goes along it can be tinkered with as it is apt to happen anyway given
the Joba rules.
Andy |
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MaryAnn51 |
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Sentimentally, I would chose Andy, but my baseball sense tells me that CC is the right choice. He is the ace of the staff and traditionally would get that
honor in any other situation. Jeff, I understand the emotion behind your argument but baseball is a business and Russ is right, the new expensive ace wins out
over the sentimental choice. Sad but true. I believe CC is more than up to the honor and what better way for the Yankees to tell him how important he is to
the immediate future of the organization.
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CalifYanksFan |
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NYYlifetimefan wrote:Jeff, you're not talking about June or July. This is the 2nd week of the season, so I don't think that argument washes. Besides, you don't set up a rotation thinking there is going to be injuries. You have to think positively and believe everyone is going to make their starts. Andy, you've got to think practicality over sentimentality. You can't tinker with a rotation just to satisfy a desire to have one pitcher start a particular game. Don't get me wrong, I love AP, but the whole first half of the season is set up based upon the order of your rotation. There is no way Andy Pettitte is a No. 1 starter. He's no longer as good as CC, AJ or Wang. Oh, he'll have his moments, but from start to start to start I don't think he'll be as good. Again, JMHO! As for the Joba Rules you guys know my thoughts. Dumb and dumber. Either he goes out and performs, or else stick him in the BP or send him down to Tampa to get innings in. Limiting him to 150 is just plain suicide.
Russ
califyanksfan "I think the good Lord is a Yankee." - Mariano Rivera |
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NYYlifetimefan |
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Personally I think you overestimate the mystique of rotation and days off and the devastating impact in the force field if any member of the team falters.
Hogwash. Let them pitch for cryin' out loud. Joba Rules etc. All a bunch of folks figuring how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. This isn't
Rocket science. A lot is common sense and people doing their best. If it was Rocket science then Koufax, Gibson, Drysdale, Ford, etc broke all the rules and
prevailed. Let Andy P start! It won't happen and we will all be a little sadder for that fact. But, bidness is bidness and money rules (even more than
Joba's rules).
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Nome II |
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Andy is certainly not the #1 starter anymore. You could make a case that Wang is #2 and AJ #3, then why not put Joba as #4 and Andy as #5 and my scenerio will
work out with no gliches?
Andy |
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CalifYanksFan |
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What mystique? It is what it is. You're ranting now and not making any sense. I tried to give you a logical explanation why you shouldn't mess with the
rotation, so let's just agree to disagree. As for being sad. I won't be at all. I'd rather win the game no matter who's on the mound. No
sentiment just practical. I think CC is a better candidate to get us a "W" than AP.
Russ
califyanksfan "I think the good Lord is a Yankee." - Mariano Rivera |
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NYYlifetimefan |
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It is not a rant. I am just saying that people put too much credence in days between starts, innings pitched, etc. Frankly, one change for the sake of history
and tradition won't shatter the team. And, who is to say Andy would lose the game? Talk about not having confidence in your staff, the assumption that Andy
is more likely to lose the game and therefore the sacred rotation order should not be tampered with or the staff would somehow be shaken b/c of the change
talks of little confidence in my book. That said, I still would very much like to see Andy pitch even though I know it won't happen. I appreciate your
explanation Russ, I just don't think it carries the day in this situation. There must be a place for tradition and history in this game. Given that, Andy
should pitch.
Last Edited By: NYYlifetimefan
03/28/09 21:01:12.
Edited 1 times.
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CalifYanksFan |
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It is not a rant.Boy, I'd hate to see your definition of a rant. Jeff ---------> Russ ---------> And, like a typical attorney you twisted my words. I said, and I
quote: "I think CC is a better candidate to get us a "W" than AP." I didn't say Andy would lose
the game, I said I thought CC had a better chance of winning it. There is a big difference in what I said and how you interpreted it. That's like saying
Andy has 2 bullets in his gun and CC has 6. Could Andy kill his target with two shots? Sure. However, with 6 shots would CC have a better chance at success?
You know the answer. I could be wrong, but head-to-head at this point in time CC is the better pitcher. Hence, he has the better chance. Jeff, be honest.
Andy had one of his worst years last year statistically. You act like swapping these guys around is no big deal. It throws 5 pitchers off their regimen.
Could they do it? Of course. Should they do it? Hell, no. It makes no sense to upset the entire rotation for the first half of the season to let one guy
pitch the first game in the new stadium. All things being equal I would have no problem, if common sense dictated it, to have Andy open the new stadium.
You're thinking with your heart instead of your head like Mary Ann said in her last post. I don't fault you for it, but I think it's the wrong
approach for this team, this early.
The prosecution rests. (BTW, you're the defense here. Trying to get your client clemency ).
Russ
califyanksfan "I think the good Lord is a Yankee." - Mariano Rivera |
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NYYlifetimefan |
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I believe my statement was "the assumption that Andy is more likely to lose the game" which is the corollary of CC is more likely to win the game.
So, I don't believe I misstated your view. That said, sure I am thinking with my heart. That is a given. But, it does not end there. My point is simple--I
highly doubt that the Yanks will end up losing their division or the pennant or the World Series b/c we make such a simple change so early in the season. So,
give the fans what they really want in a situation like this--let Andy open the new stadium. Is that asking for so much? I think not. And, as our Andy noted, a
few tweaks and all is good. I seriously doubt the outcome of the season depends on this. Hell, ARod being gone has a much larger impact on the season than the
minor tweak I am seeking. But, I guess we are destined to disagree on this one. And, that disagreement speaks volumes on what baseball has become.
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CalifYanksFan |
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Oh yeah you misstated it. You're assuming that I felt Andy would lose, which is clearly not true. I said that the probability of CC winning was greater,
hence my scenario with the bullets in the gun. You appear to be forgetting that Girardi and his staff has spent many a night figuring out the projected
rotation against which teams they are going to be facing. It IS NOT A SIMPLE CHANGE in the
classic definition. Again, you're assuming what the fans want according to what you think or feel. Using A-Rod is an excellent example for my position. If
he is not in the clean up spot the order has to be changed around to maximize the line up's effectiveness. If say, Teixeira was projected to bat 3rd he
might bat 4th with A-Rod out of the line up. Posada batting 6th might bat 5th; Matusi from 7th to 6th, etc., etc. Making tweaks is not, as you say, good. It
can be bad, and in this case it is no minor tweak. You've got to look beyond a singular game.
Russ
califyanksfan "I think the good Lord is a Yankee." - Mariano Rivera |
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MaryAnn51 |
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Jeez, guys take a breath for a minute! What's done is done, CC is starting the home opener at the New Yankee Stadium. Jeff, if the Yankees gave a damn
about how the fans felt they would do alot of things differently and they still wouldn't be begging people in a horrible economy to buy "premium
seating" between the bases at this late stage of the game. The Yankees and every other sports franchise cares about the bottom line and that is all they
care about. Yes it's sad, but they are in the business of making money and putting tushies in the seats.
Mary Ann |
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NYYlifetimefan |
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MaryAnn is right. Put butts in the seats. And, in NY you have to win to do that. So, we sacrifice everything on the alter of victory no matter what the cost or
toll. Russ, we are destined to disagree here. I am sure you have much more baseball savvy than me--I usually lead with my heart and not my head. The wizards of
Yankee management (just see how successful they have been the last 8 years or so) are much more keenly tuned to what it takes to win and put seats in the
stadium than I am. I just hope that 50 years from now it wasn't for naught.
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CalifYanksFan |
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I just hope that 50 years from now it wasn't for naught.Jeff me lad, in 50 years you won't care.
Neither will I. We'll both be taking dirt naps
Personally, I'm looking for a "W" no matter who's chucking the rock.
Russ
califyanksfan "I think the good Lord is a Yankee." - Mariano Rivera |
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Nome II |
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And in this economy, both the Yankees and the Mets are finding it difficult to sell out the expensive seats, and I for one am estactic about it. I Hope they
fall on their faces.
And I hope all sports feel the economic pinch to the point that they will never give another player a multiyear contract for more than $10 million a year. But I know it will never happen But I certainly can hope. I am sick and tired of these rich, pampered, self satisfied bastards. Andy |
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ClemensNY |
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I don't think the average Yankee fan cares that CC is starting over AP in the new Stadium opener. All they care about is getting a W. What if Andy starts
and they lose? People would scream "the rotation was altered for the sake of sentimentalism and respect for AP...should have stuck with the planned
rotation...the yankees don't care about the future, just history"....and on and on.
You can certainly argue that if they lose with CC pitching, what's the difference? Well, the difference is that it's the right thing to do. Stick to the rotation whenever possible. A few weeks from now nobody is going to care who started the first game at the stadium.....just care about where the Yankees are in the standings. Ken |
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MaryAnn51 |
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Ken, you said it better than anyone. What difference will this all make in the end, we all just want a win.
Mary Ann |
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